Jocelyn
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Welcome to Stories That Stick. I have here a real treat for you. I have Jocelyn Manzanares and she is the founder of Circle Time Success. I came across her around this time last year and she was sharing about the importance of singing in the classroom and how to just Help educators put their questioning their celves their singing voices aside and just get out there and sing and it, and it reminded me so much of what I tell to teachers all the time to just get out there and tell stories and just try it.
So she and I really connected and I'm excited to have her on today to talk a little bit about how we can incorporate music with stories and a developmentally appropriate way. And I'm going to let her introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her. All right. Well, thanks for having me, Laura. So yeah, my name's Jocelyn and I live in Seattle, Washington, and my, my day job is going into childcare centers and preschools all around the area and teaching music classes.
So 30 minute music classes we get in there and we dance and we sing and we play instruments and read books and tell stories. And I also do virtual music classes and Laura brings her kiddos every Tuesday to the virtual music classes, which allow me to reach an even larger population all around the country.
And I also teach teachers how they can use more music in their classroom, sort of a DIY approach, but not everybody wants that. So that's why I offer both. And I am excited to be here to talk about how I bring stories into my music classes. Yeah, so that's what I would love to chat about right now. So, you know, the kind of thing I get from adults all the time is like, well, I can't tell stories.
I'm not creative enough. I don't know how to make them up. Do you want to kind of walk us through a little bit about how you prepare to, to tell stories? Do you take a lot of time? Do you put a lot of thought into it? Do you do it on the fly? I'm so curious. Yeah. Well, first off, I have to start by telling you that when I was growing up, my dad would come into my bedroom every night when it was time to go to bed.
And he would either read to me, we would read like big chapter books like The Bobsy Twins. And gosh, I just remember him. We would just read books. And it was so funny because sometimes he'd like, I'm like, yeah, did you just fall asleep? And he'd fall asleep. But but then he would also make up stories and I just loved it.
So I grew up with that. Really that idea that, hey, you can make up a story and have it go wherever you want it to. And so then when I had my girls two girls, teenagers now, I would always lay with them at night and tell them stories. And it was just kind of this idea where like, if maybe they would tell me like a starter, what do you want this story to be about?
A grizzly bear or going to the store or something. I needed like a starter. Then I just kind of ran with it. And I think in my head, maybe I did sort of have like a layout of like, okay, now the story I need to introduce the characters and this something needs to happen and then I need to wrap it up.
But I don't even think I really would get that. I think I remember laying in bed sometimes going, how am I going to end this? I'm going to end this story. But it just, I just kind of let it flow. I just, There wasn't really any rhyme or reason, so I can't give any, any tips on that. But as I became a teacher and a music teacher specifically, I knew that I wanted to bring in books into the classroom.
And so I would go to different trainings and they would, you know, they would sort of, Oh, read this book and, and. Bring this little diddy in with the book. So I started to kind of see, okay, what would happen was you take a picture book and then you bring in a song into it. Now, what happens with that is it's like a couple of things happen.
So number one, reading a book to a child can be what you call passive. If it is just simply like, I'm only expecting them to sit. And, and watch me, and listen, and I'm not asking for anything back. Now, for some kids, that's fine, but when I have a group of 20 kids, And they all have sort of different learning interests, and their bodies need different interactions.
I can't for sure know that that style of reading a book is going to work. So what I rather do is I cast a wider net by having it be an inclusive story time. So if I am using a book. I want to be asking them things throughout the story. I want to be pointing, pointing things out, asking open ended questions.
And then also the music serves as what I can call really a hook, an attention getter, a coming to me, come back to me. And it's especially important for those children who do just, you know, they start to lose an interest, their attention wanes. And. Boom, that song comes back and they're like, Oh, I'm in it again.
Okay, I'm on. And so by doing that, it never gets to the point where they aren't hooked into the story because every page or every two pages, that song's coming back again and they know to jump back in. repetitive line in a story you know, some of these books are even tailored for you to, to sing. But of course there's books where I just add my own song into it.
So I like to do that. And then when it comes to telling stories where I don't have a book, I like flannel board stories. And I like that because It sort of helps me frame the story, especially if it's like, you know, the three little pigs or if it's Goldilocks, then those flannel board pieces help me as the storyteller to sort of anchor on to each one of those areas.
But I'm going to tell you that every time I tell a story that is not written down, it's changing all the time. And, you know, I might, if I teach the class seven times. I definitely am not going to say exactly the same words or say in exactly the same order. I mean, I might find in class two that I liked another way of presenting a certain part of it.
So I, I like that open ended idea. Like, I could totally change this story up however I wanted. I could shorten it. I could lengthen it. I could ask kids to do things. Like I'm doing a story this week and I'm asking them to stir. So I'm asking them to, to get involved in the storytelling. And what I also find is when I do have the visual pieces, They are, of course, more likely to remember the story later.
And so then I would take those visual pieces and put them in another area. And then when you watch them, you walk around and they're over there with the pieces and they're retelling the story. That's when you know they paid attention. So those are kind of some of the ways that I do stories and I will practice them.
I will, if it's a new story and I'm kind of playing around with how it's going to come across, I'm going to make sure and practice it. So I'm driving down the road or I'm getting ready and I'm looking in the mirror and I always just tell my husband, I'm like, just so you know, like you're going to walk in on me and I'm going to be talking to myself because I have to do that to, to get that idea in my head about how the story is going to best be told.
So I am rehearsing. all the time. I'm getting the points down. I'm getting that outline down. But after the outline is down in my head, I can start to be creative and fill in the blanks as needed. That just kind of creates my structure. I hope that kind of answers some of your questions. Yeah, for sure. So many things that I want to comment on the first one being some people, if they know me well enough, or they've been listening to my podcast, know where the idea of little stories that stick came from is actually my dad used to tell me stories and my parents divorced when I was younger and we would go to my dad's every Wednesday night.
And one of the memories, core memories that I have is not necessarily a specific story, but this experience of every Wednesday when we went to my dad's, he was telling us stories, and he was telling us a story that would kind of not have an ending, and kind of pick it up the following week. And so it was building on and it was creating this anticipation, right, to, to look forward to it and come to find out as we got older, what he was doing was the books he was reading, particularly Stephen King books, he would be retelling them to us.
a little less gruesome or scary, but he would basically be reading his own books and adapting them to tell them to us and then incorporate my, my sister and I as characters into the story. And that is just like a really strong memory that I have. So I love that that's so beautiful that we both have that connection and that memory of our parents telling us stories before bed.
And that's what. I do with my children. My husband has taken it on a little bit more. They don't want to hear my stories as much because I think, I think my stories are I always, I guess, have a bit of an agenda when I'm telling them to my children, but my husband, he's got two characters and one is a dirt biker that he tells to my son all the time.
And one is a girl who has a horse that she lives with. And so he tells about Ricky and Phoenix to my, my two children. And they always ask for those kinds of. Stories that he builds on or has developed this whole narrative. around them. So that's really beautiful. I think that the other thing that really stands out to me is when you were sharing about this idea of like, when we're reading books, it can be a very passive experience for most children.
And that is one of the things that I really want to spread more awareness about is that it can be really easy for us to grab a book to pass that time or to catch their attention or whatever. But if Once every five times instead of grabbing that book you can instead tell a story and maybe even it's you're telling that story You're about to grab no David You know it well enough.
Use those characters, use the plot, use something from it, and just get creative and tell it. And even better, yeah, if you can incorporate this little bit of a refrain or a line that repeats. Now, I in the stories that I've learned, I don't have Nice little sing songy refrains, but I, I modify and adapt them when I hear other people use them, but I always do notice those ones that have those phrases that repeat even in the classics with like the three little pigs, right?
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down. That's really giving you. A branch, a low level branch for some Children to grab on to that are not able to grab the other places and just by incorporating that little bit of a song right where it's pulling just more of the brain and and those notes and things and it can be something that some other Children relate to.
I think that that's awesome. Now it's interesting that you say you practice your stories. I don't think I've ever practiced a story, but I wonder if I was Doing it in this more like formal way right where you're going in to do a class and you know when I'm a teacher I'm doing the whole day on the fly right because it was an emergent curriculum and something happens and I tell a story on the spot But what I do find is when I do tell a story that resonates or something sticks or I come up with some incredible little thing that repeats or something, I make sure to write it down, something about it.
Because one of my mentors taught me that once you tell a story three times, you will never forget how to tell it. And so if I tell a story that I made up, and I'm like, this is a good one, I'll make note of it. And then I will tell it to myself or whatever, multiple times. Not to practice it per se, but to make sure it goes into whatever part of my brain so that I can pull it out again another time.
Interesting. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I bet now you have this repertoire, right? Once you, like, learn your story that has the little sing song part in it, you have it. It's, it's a part of, it's in your back pocket now. And that's what the other half of this podcast I want to be. So you could listen to my stories and listen to it as a teacher.
You don't listen to it, play it, and then retell it yourself. Make it your own. It's just that little low lying branch for you to be able to do that. So I'm curious, do you, are there, you said there are some books that have, that like lend itself, right, to that. Do you, do you, can you think up a couple off your head or is that too on the spot?
Well, let me see. So, I like Dinosaur Rumpus. Yes. It's a good one. Shake, Shake. I'm trying to remember how it goes now, but I have a repeating line in there. I'm getting it mixed up. I'm getting it mixed up with Shake Dem Halloween Bones. Do you know that one? Oh, nope, but I a copper. Cause that one is Shake, Shake Dem Bones.
Yeah, Shake, Shake, Shake Dem Bones. Yeah, Shake. Shake, shake them bones at the hip hop Halloween ball. Yeah, so that one's good. So shake, shake them bones. But then Dinosaur Rumpus does have a repeating line. And of course now I am just drawing a blank because I'm getting it mixed up. Oh my gosh. If I had the list of all my books, I could definitely But I mean, even Even what I found is like Lori Berkner's song We Are the Dinosaurs, when that book came out, Yes.
It was really awesome. Because I think just kind of going back to this kind of idea where we, are asking kids when we tell them stories to picture it in their head, which is a pretty high level skill to be able to picture things. So the older kids get, they're going to be able to do that. But for younger kids, that's why I do kind of bring the visuals too, because especially if I have children who are English language learners, they might not know what I'm talking about.
And so I want to make sure that I have The some, some sort of image of like they can lock onto it. So yeah, so those are just great. But yeah, using those stories with those songs in there is just It's so much fun and it just keeps what I was going to say about the Lori Bruckner one is and then when you bring the book in after all these times of doing it, it's like, is this what you pictured, I have to say it wasn't what I was pictured and I didn't even think that there was going to be this, like, volcano exploding and, you know, You know, all these funny little, that, that, that's a really great example of having conversations within the book, because not only does she have the text, which you can sing, but she also has these little bubbles, speaking bubbles coming off of the different characters.
Have you seen that book before? I have it. I actually, it must have been, you must have referenced it in your, your virtual music class that my daughter was asking for. Yeah. And you said I know the song. We're actually going to take my children to see Lori Berkner in concert, but that was, that was like a go to song for a while in our home.
And I did not know that there was a book. But yeah, when you, when you showed it, I think I requested it from the library. Yeah. But I haven't gotten it yet. Yeah, I, I think that that brings to my memory the book that is called One Duck Stuck, and it's got this repetitive part, so it's a counting book, and the theory, the story is that there's one duck stuck in the muck, and I love it because it has so much of that, like, rhyming, it has alliteration and repetitive sounds, but it also has counting, but then it has this refrain, because the duck is stuck, and it says the duck gets stuck, no luck.
And then they ask who can help and animals come and say we can, we can, and then it brings in two dragonflies, and then three moose, four whatever. But I would love, I bet, you're gonna get that, and then you're gonna use it, and you're gonna send me a voice recording. Because I always just kind of like, say it, like, We can, we can, but I bet you'd make it into a beautiful little refrain.
But my daughter, she pulls that book out all the time and you can hear her. She's, she's just saying those like, who can help? Duck's stuck. We can, we can, right? Those things that repeat over and over and those are so foundational. She's interacting with the print on her own and it's giving her something to grab onto and how awesome it would be if there was also a little bit of a song that went with it.
And then it gives us that more to branch off of, right? And then, if I see that she's really into that, I might next tell a story about a different animal that gets stuck not in the mud, but now maybe it's I come up with some other rhyming words. And that's when I might put some thought into it, because you can't always, like, right now I'm trying to think of, like, a bee that Guess is in a tree, but I gotta think of another E sound that's happening there, right?
But like when you notice those small moments and what the children are, are latching on to, that's when you might be producing something that's a little bit more prepared to, to facilitate that more. Yeah. Well, you know, what you could even do is as you're telling the story, if you did have that, the duck gets stuck.
In the muck. Is that what the name of the book is like? Yeah. Okay. Is that then they could help you tell a story with you as their guide and you'll probably do this, but with you as their guide and let's take it to a different place. Let's like you're talking about, but then that could also be a way to work on rhyming skills because then if you're like, Oh, now we have a B and he's stuck in a, get the baby stuck in as they start to go, Oh, a tree or all the different places he could be stuck.
But what I what I love about this and what I have noticed with Children is the ones whose creativity has been fostered and the ones who have no idea what it's like to come up with ideas on their own. You see those kids floundering going. What, what, what do you mean you want me to come up with something that he is stuck in?
I tell me. and you can just tell that they haven't been exposed to that creative thinking, that divergent idea that anything is right. Mm-Hmm. . And it, it can go in any direction. So that's what I love about, about showing, telling a folk story and then showing them, Hey, this is possible to tell a story that I have no idea.
And kids tell stories a lot. If you start to listen, but I think there are some kids who haven't been given that seed of you can do this. It's, it's legal. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I find that there's when I am implementing storytelling and story acting in the classroom there and I say just Does anybody want to tell me a story?
There's typically like, two or three camps. There's the one that's like, yep, and come. Once upon a time, there was a princess and and they are going, going, going. They know, I know what you're asking and I know what to do. Then there's ones that have no interest at all. And then there's the ones that are like, you can tell.
They're like, well I want to. But then when you kind of like, peel back the layer and you're like, oh, do you want to tell a story? No. My son used to tell me he had no stories in his brain. And he like, wanted me to give mine to him. And I think that Almost for some children there becomes this like they already have a preconceived notion of what a storyteller is or what a story should be and they don't think of themselves as telling a story and yet, when they're in dramatic play, when they're in blocks, when they're outside or eating their goldfish crackers, they're pretending to be characters or they're telling stories and it's just that We as the adults can need to take those moments and be like you don't want to interrupt their play.
But what I do was I might like tail behind them and write some of what I hear down. And then at another time when I'm asking them, like, Oh, do you want to tell a story? And they're like, well, I don't have any stories or I don't know how to tell a story. Then say Oh, well, the other day when you were playing in blocks, I heard you were, you were playing this story and you were being this character and this is what was happening and almost like open.
that door for them. But I, I agree that the power of telling stories for young children, it really does give them a creative outlet and pairing that with music, pairing it with art, pairing it with anything is, is an awesome thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. So do you have any last bits of advice or Any things you would recommend to somebody that's looking to just get a little bit more music and stories into their, their whole group time?
Yeah. I just came up just, there was a book that I had at the beginning of my career and I lost it. I think I gave it to somebody and I've been thinking about this book and thinking about this book. I'm like, I have to find it. And it just came to me, the title. And I looked it up and I just got it this week on thrift, thrift books.
Oh, I love thrift books. Do you know this? It's three singing pigs. It's making music with traditional stories. So this is by Kay Umansky, K A Y E and the last name U M A N S K Y. And in here, she has the stories, Three Little Pigs there's another one, The Enormous Turnip. The Awangalima tree. Do you know that one?
No. Oh my gosh. So this is such a great book because in what she's done is she's actually put little little stories within here, but also like little sounds to make and then instruments that you can bring in. So this would be a great idea. Like a lot of classrooms have that box of mixed instruments that you're like, what do I do with this?
So this would be a perfect way because for instance she's got some animals in here. Well, the, the rabbit could be the sticks and the turtle could be the, what should the turtle be? And then when the turtle moves, that child can play the instrument. So thinking of ways that you can tell those stories, this is just maybe a good place for people who want to start to look for that.
It would be Again, this one, Three Singing Pigs. Another one that I really love, Judith Sierra. Does that name sound familiar to you? I think so. Sierra. Okay, so she has another, she has a book and It is, again, filled with these pretty short stories, like two pages, and then in the back are the flannel cut out, you could make the, the, just, you'd have to make the flannel, but they are so fun as well, so it's, it's just a chance for you to start finding one you love.
And then start to build upon it and get, and get it ready to tell. So those are my two ideas that people might want to go check out if they are like, okay, I'm ready. I kind of want to jump in. Oh, and one more idea that has really worked for me is a whiteboard and a marker an erase marker, because then if I don't have time to grab my props, Like I can tell there's a story called Monkey Face that I tell.
And you can just draw as you're telling the story and eventually get to the point. I have the flannels, but I don't always have availability to the flannels. So, that's another great way that you can tell a story using just something different. It's like, You don't always have to have a book. And that's, that's part of it.
Yep. I actually, one of my, like, go to books was more of like a, I think it was more of like a professional development book than it would be like a children's book, but it had stories in it, and that's where I learned some of my core stories that I tell, and it would have either Patterns for you to be able to make flannel or directions on how to make like one on a file folder.
And there was this one called T is for Tommy and you like, tell a story as you're drawing it and it ends up being a cat, but it was like something that I started building that, I just got that book and started trying out some of the stories and picked, okay, which one's resonated with me and stuck in my head 15 years ago when I still tell them now I think it is just kind of adding a couple to your back pocket instead of your favorite book or your favorite song add some favorite stories too.
So. Yeah. So where can people find you and I'm going to put those books that you referenced into the show notes so they can see that. Yeah. Awesome. So I have two websites so musically minded is for people who want me to do the teaching. So that's if you want me to be a virtual music teacher for you or if you want me in your schools if you live in Seattle.
And then the other one is circle time success. So musically minded is dot net and success is dot com. That's the place to go. If you're a teacher who's ready to DIY new activities in your circle time and to bring music and movement into your classroom, not just at circle time, but all day long. Awesome.
And I have to tell you, I did pull up the dinosaur rumpus. Oh, but now I've just lost it. Nope. Here it is. Shake, shake, shudder near the sludgy old swamp. The dinosaurs are coming. Get ready to romp. Will you sing it for me? Yep. Shake, shake, shudder at this. No, I'm just Near the sludgy Shudder at the Yep. The dinosaurs are coming.
Get come in, get ready to rump. So,
so it's a little minor. It's mm-Hmm. key. So it's kids love mi. Things written in the minor. Oh, kind of adds a little bit of little eeriness when we sing like that. So yeah, cool. Well, nice little tidbit. Yeah. So I just found that on your circle time website. So I know you have tons of resources there.
That was like a little lesson plan that you already had put together.
Awesome. Well, thanks so much. It was so great having you and chatting with you about music and stories. Yes. Thanks for having me.
The end. But really, that's it for today's episode of Stories That Stick. Inspiring and captivating minds, young and old. Remember, stories have the incredible ability to spark conversations, ignite imagination, and create lasting connections. If you loved what you heard, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a five star review.
It really does make a difference. And, if you have a story to share or a topic you want me to explore, reach out to me on Instagram at LittleStoriesThatStick. Until next time, keep working that storytelling muscle and tell stories every day.
